Curse

Julia-Louis Dreyfus · Jan 20, 2008, 11:11 PM // 23:11

reasons are given if you pay attention, if those reasons arent good enough for you then thats not our problem, its a game, people like different things and have reasons why they wish it to stay the same. if you dont like it, thats to bad

MithranArkanere · Jan 21, 2008, 01:52 AM // 01:52

Exaclty. That's what I meant.

10000 people that love to see high figures in action sites don't have the right to decide what the rest of 1 million people like most.

Thanks for the support.

cellardweller · Jan 21, 2008, 01:56 AM // 01:56

I personally think things are great at the moment. For people like me who like looks and functionality, inscribable versions of pretty much any skin are available for reasonable prices. For players that enjoy collecting rare things, the non-inscribable versions are still dropping.

Any change from the status quo will hurt one group of gamers or the other so /notsigned.

Julia-Louis Dreyfus · Jan 21, 2008, 03:35 AM // 03:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

Exaclty. That's what I meant.

10000 people that love to see high figures in action sites don't have the right to decide what the rest of 1 million people like most.

Thanks for the support.

uh not what i meant, so shove my "support" where the sun dont shine

theres no real reason to change anything, if you want "better" drops go farm in eotn or nf.
dont like factions or prophs drops, then dont chest run or farm there, simple as that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanyatta

I loved you in Seinfeld.

me too

cept her new show kinda sucks

Kanyatta · Jan 21, 2008, 04:03 AM // 04:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julia-Louis Dreyfus

uh not what i meant.

I loved you in Seinfeld.

ValaOfTheFens · Jan 21, 2008, 06:13 AM // 06:13

/signed

Whoever says things are just fine is probably rich or too casual to care about this. A few months ago I was doing that depressing Juggernaut quest in Factions in HM to rack up more Kurz faction and got a gold Ebon Gothic Sword of Enchanting(20%). It was req9 and had inherent 15^50. I had it PC'ed here at between 65k and 80k. I could not sell it to save my life. Why? Because it wasn't inscribable. I ended up trading it for much less valuble items because no one would give me even half of what it was worth in cash.

People want inscribable items. If I had to choose between an uninscribable Platinum staff and an inscribable Platinum staff I'd go with the inscribable staff. The vast majority of golds are duds. The power to change what was once an inherent mod can make a big difference. An item I might have merched becomes an item I can mod to my tastes.

Anyway...the OP said this is just in HM. NM will still have uninscibable golds. Farm them in NM.

manitoba1073 · Jan 21, 2008, 09:14 AM // 09:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by ValaOfTheFens

/signed

Whoever says things are just fine is probably rich or too casual to care about this. A few months ago I was doing that depressing Juggernaut quest in Factions in HM to rack up more Kurz faction and got a gold Ebon Gothic Sword of Enchanting(20%). It was req9 and had inherent 15^50. I had it PC'ed here at between 65k and 80k. I could not sell it to save my life. Why? Because it wasn't inscribable. I ended up trading it for much less valuble items because no one would give me even half of what it was worth in cash.

People want inscribable items. If I had to choose between an uninscribable Platinum staff and an inscribable Platinum staff I'd go with the inscribable staff. The vast majority of golds are duds. The power to change what was once an inherent mod can make a big difference. An item I might have merched becomes an item I can mod to my tastes.

Anyway...the OP said this is just in HM. NM will still have uninscibable golds. Farm them in NM.

Just because you get something PC'd does not mean you get that price range. Were you in a rush or how long did you try to sell it? Adding inscriptions to all weapons removes far more flexability in weapons and offhands and sheilds than adding them would provide.

Dont believe me fine. Try finding me a dual reduction sheild thats inscribable or a staff thats like req energy storage while having 20/20 cast/recharge fire inscribable or even a offhand thats req divine favor while having 20/20 heal. Those are the kinds of things you will lose if inscriptions are added to all weapons.

Julia-Louis Dreyfus · Jan 21, 2008, 09:36 AM // 09:36

oh oh! and those +1 shields :P

edit:the +1 healing, +1 blood, +1fire etc, not that master of my domain crap

MirkoTeran · Jan 21, 2008, 09:57 AM // 09:57

/not signed

Just stop with all the inscription crap. The list of mod combination you can get with inscription is shorter then the non-inscription ones. Sure, all combos are not as useful as they could be, but then again, why should they be?

Old-school FTW!

arsie · Jan 21, 2008, 10:23 AM // 10:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by ValaOfTheFens

... I had it PC'ed here at between 65k and 80k. I could not sell it to save my life. Why? Because it wasn't inscribable. I ended up trading it for much less valuble items because no one would give me even half of what it was worth in cash...

Things are worth as much as people are willing to buy and sell them at a given time. Apparently you felt that your sword was worth less than 65k when you traded it off.

On topic, in-game item prices are always going to be vulnerable to changes to the game. It is the same for all online games with economies. If all Prophesies and Faction weapons drops are inscribable from tomorrow onwards, it might just drive perfect uninscribeable max weapon prices through the roof, because there is no chance that new ones will ever drop again. If that happens, some people will cheer, other people will moan, and yet more will not know what the big deal is all about.

Being a game of very very few gold sinks, GW's economy is definitely quite unique. The developer have to constantly think of ways to deflate the market, otherwise inflation will make the game prohibitive for new players. Inscriptions are no doubt part of that deflation.

Longasc · Jan 21, 2008, 10:58 AM // 10:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by MirkoTeran

Old-school FTW!

The shield is a total failure. Do you use it for anything else but in showcase to say "look, I have a r7 STR shield with perfect mods (that are still total crap in that combo, to sum it up)"

Would it have an inscription slot and could be modded, it could be saved.

I have a r8 15^50 Longsword, and what is so special about that. It is r8, big deal, as if I would ever use it with 8 Swordsmanship only... everyone can craft one in GWEN, r9, inscription slot, not golden.

Ask yourself if the Inscription system was not an advantage. Before it we were severely limited in our skin choices, or we would have to pay 100k+ for a certain vanity item.

Is it all about "look, I have something rare you cannot afford?" Pfft!

Nobody sees my r8 Longsword. I probably have to tell people and open trade to show of my epeen.

We still have rare items, despite inscription slots. Think of Stygian Reavers and Runic Blades.

Can anyone finally name a good reason why Tyria and Cantha shall drop garbage only so that a few lucky ones can have a rare item that probably nobody else can identify as such one or ever sees at all? This is so pointless.

Julia-Louis Dreyfus · Jan 21, 2008, 11:21 AM // 11:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longasc

Can anyone finally name a good reason why Tyria and Cantha shall drop garbage only so that a few lucky ones can have a rare item...

you just named my reason, if your lazy farm somewhere else, these 2 games have REAL rare drops, not only do you have to get one to drop, but it has to come with a good inherent mod, which makes finding one all the more fun

MithranArkanere · Jan 21, 2008, 01:11 PM // 13:11

Yet, that reason works only for those 10k people I told you.

And 10k people can't hijack the game from much more people.

It's not "I want better drops", It's to make all campaigns equal.

Even the only member of my guild that agrees with the old system acknowledges that I'm right when HE HIMSELF keeps an inscribed chaos axe, then sells the uniscribed to "those idiots in the auction forums" as he says.

He may 'agree' with the system for the cash, but he don't use the items himself!
Weapon drops are not Miniatures, they are not for show off and hoard as cash in the storage, they are for being used.

And those 'impossible' combinations are just another big reason to remove the old system.
They may need to add more upgrades to the list, but NOTHING that can not be replicated with the PvP panel should exist like it is in the game.
And I'm including the /bonus items and greens like the Flint's Focus.
More upgrades, and upgrade traders, and done.

ValaOfTheFens · Jan 21, 2008, 03:30 PM // 15:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

Just because you get something PC'd does not mean you get that price range. Were you in a rush or how long did you try to sell it? Adding inscriptions to all weapons removes far more flexability in weapons and offhands and sheilds than adding them would provide.

I tried to sell the thing for 3 months. Does that count as a rush? I needed the money for armor and had to find other method of making the money I could have made had the sword been inscribable.

How would adding inscriptions hurt flexibility? Please explain your statement.

Quote:

Originally Posted by arsie

Things are worth as much as people are willing to buy and sell them at a given time. Apparently you felt that your sword was worth less than 65k when you traded it off.

As I said above. I tried for 3 months. It was taking up space in storage that could have gone to something I actually wanted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by arsie

On topic, in-game item prices are always going to be vulnerable to changes to the game. It is the same for all online games with economies. If all Prophesies and Faction weapons drops are inscribable from tomorrow onwards, it might just drive perfect uninscribeable max weapon prices through the roof, because there is no chance that new ones will ever drop again. If that happens, some people will cheer, other people will moan, and yet more will not know what the big deal is all about.

Being a game of very very few gold sinks, GW's economy is definitely quite unique. The developer have to constantly think of ways to deflate the market, otherwise inflation will make the game prohibitive for new players. Inscriptions are no doubt part of that deflation.

Inscriptions have made it possible for me to make use of weapons that were ok but with a different inscription its actually good. If someone wants to spend 100k on a perfect inscribable weapon more power to him/her. New players generally don't try to buy a weapon because it looks nice. They buy because its max damage and in the attribute they favor. Also, you can craft a max damage, inscribable weapon for 5k + materials. That's not really cheap but within the range of all but the most casual of players. Anyway...the OP said this would just be in HM.

Sleeper Service · Jan 21, 2008, 03:44 PM // 15:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Well, I wish the celestial weapons from the weh no su mission were inscriptable

Quoted For TRUTH.

no seriously, that pisses me off too.

:s

7 heroes, GW wide epigraph able weapons.

Jetdoc · Jan 21, 2008, 04:05 PM // 16:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

And those 'impossible' combinations are just another big reason to remove the old system.

They may need to add more upgrades to the list, but NOTHING that can not be replicated with the PvP panel should exist like it is in the game.

Pissing off many of your loyal die hard customers to appease many more casual gamers isn't a wise thing to do before the release of Guild Wars 2. Those 10K customers you are referring to are the most likely to be first in line at the store to purchase GW2. The other "fly by night" customers may or may not purchase the new game based on their fancy at the time.

To use the counter to argument, why should items that I already have in inventory, have customized and use frequently be affected by your proposed change? For the greater good? For equality for older chapters whose sales are significantly dwindling?

MithranArkanere · Jan 21, 2008, 04:27 PM // 16:27

1. Because mistakes must be fixed.

2. Those 10k customers I'm refering are not the base. Are those that came from WoW and other grindfest games and want something similar without paying monthly fees. Even form the rest of the million, there must be at least 40k of 'loyal' players that likes the inscriptions.

I'm talking about those that bought the game because they heard things like:
- All weapons have a max, and the rest it's just the skins.
- You reach level 20, and then you are ready to go.
- PvP it's the most balanced of all games of the genre.
- Anyone can get anything without years of grind.
And then bought the game.
I'm talking about those that WILL go for the beta and buy GW2 as soon as it is released. That's more than 10k.

In the spanish forums I always visit, people come to ask about the game, and they are told those things.
And they get all excited. "Yay! A game that is like that must be great!"
And most of them end buying all the campaigns.
And those that bought Nightfall and Eye of the north, then the other games, get all disappointed when they see the drops in Prophecies and Factions. For them, they are simply useless. Specially the Off-hand items and wands, that, unlike the rest of weapons, that at least have 2 upgrade slots; they do not have upgrades at all.

Items devalue over time.
Imagine a guy that made 3 Obsidian armos with the same character.
And now he has 3 obsidian armors with runes.
Aw... waste of time!
It could be even cheaper to change the whole set of rune/insignia (specially with the Perfect kits) 100 times rather than the gold spent in three sets.

Some people clinging to an old system, because they want to keep the rarity of the item they do not use at all but save for 'rarity', and to show to others it's not a reason to keep the majority of players from having fun.

As I've said, weapons where meant to be equiped and used, not stored as cash, as inscriptions give items more versatily.

On top of that, even in Nightfall and GW:EN gold items may sometimes drop without inscriptions (that is, with just the slots fo the upgrades, but without the inscription slot, and no modifier at all). So getting the item inscribed is a matter of luck even there.

kosh · Jan 21, 2008, 04:53 PM // 16:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longasc

The shield is a total failure. Do you use it for anything else but in showcase to say "look, I have a r7 STR shield with perfect mods (that are still total crap in that combo, to sum it up)"

Would it have an inscription slot and could be modded, it could be saved.

I have a r8 15^50 Longsword, and what is so special about that. It is r8, big deal, as if I would ever use it with 8 Swordsmanship only... everyone can craft one in GWEN, r9, inscription slot, not golden.

Ask yourself if the Inscription system was not an advantage. Before it we were severely limited in our skin choices, or we would have to pay 100k+ for a certain vanity item.

Is it all about "look, I have something rare you cannot afford?" Pfft!

Nobody sees my r8 Longsword. I probably have to tell people and open trade to show of my epeen.

We still have rare items, despite inscription slots. Think of Stygian Reavers and Runic Blades.

Can anyone finally name a good reason why Tyria and Cantha shall drop garbage only so that a few lucky ones can have a rare item that probably nobody else can identify as such one or ever sees at all? This is so pointless.

hmmm

so... u dont like the "oldschool" items? fine dont farm there, ffs so sick and tired of ppl being tools about the game.

MirkoTeran · Jan 21, 2008, 05:13 PM // 17:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longasc

We still have rare items, despite inscription slots. Think of Stygian Reavers and Runic Blades.

You forgot to add <sarcasm> tag there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

1. Because mistakes must be fixed.

Its not a mistake.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

2. Those 10k customers I'm refering are not the base. Are those that came from WoW and other grindfest games and want something similar without paying monthly fees.

Those 10 are the people that are in the game from the start. They aren't WoW's refugees like most 'give-me-everything-NOW-lol' McScrubs you see posting Sardelac every day.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

On top of that, even in Nightfall and GW:EN gold items may sometimes drop without inscriptions (that is, with just the slots fo the upgrades, but without the inscription slot, and no modifier at all). So getting the item inscribed is a matter of luck even there.

This has nothing to do with inscription/non-inscription system. Sometimes weapons drop without damage mod if its indescribable or not.

Jetdoc · Jan 21, 2008, 05:32 PM // 17:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

Those 10k customers I'm refering are not the base. Are those that came from WoW and other grindfest games and want something similar without paying monthly fees. Even form the rest of the million, there must be at least 40k of 'loyal' players that likes the inscriptions.

I'm talking about those that bought the game because they heard things like:
- All weapons have a max, and the rest it's just the skins.
- You reach level 20, and then you are ready to go.
- PvP it's the most balanced of all games of the genre.
- Anyone can get anything without years of grind.
And then bought the game.

I'm talking about those that WILL go for the beta and buy GW2 as soon as it is released. That's more than 10k.

Some people clinging to an old system, because they want to keep the rarity of the item they do not use at all but save for 'rarity', and to show to others it's not a reason to keep the majority of players from having fun. As I've said, weapons where meant to be equiped and used, not stored as cash, as inscriptions give items more versatily.

1. You're making some serious generalizations about the population of GW, and how many people actually support your idea. Without some polling mechanism in GW, the best proxy that the developers have for the opinions of the playerbase are forums like these, and not anecdotal evidence from conversations you've had with a few select players.

2. Regarding your reference to the 10,000 or so being WoW refugees, I would surmise that a substantial majority of those that you refer to had never touched WoW, and likely have been around GW shortly after the issuance of Prophecies (and therefore still have the affinity to the non-inscription days). But again, that's a generalization much like yours that has no support for it.

3. Regarding lack of grind, you have to realize that the replayability of GW is based on grind - you can see it in the PvE only skills, titles, etc. Those that do not like grind normally play through the storyline a few times and then drop the game for the next shiny thing that shows up on the shelves.

4. Regarding lack of use of the items, I think this is where you are missing the boat. Yes, there are a select few "collectors" that like to keep items for simple value purposes. However, the vast majority of the 10,000 you refer to actively use their items, and often go so far as to customize them (so they lose all value). Despite your descriptions above, there are many instances where a req 7 or 8 weapon can come in very handy, or the combinations that are not available in inscriptions that are very desired. Should these be eliminated in order to preserve your sense of equality and fulfillment of perceived promises?

Another presumption that you've made is that an item can only have a heightened value if it can be sold (or shown) to someone else. That dosen't consider the value an individual item can have to the person that is using it, regardless of whether anyone else can use it. A person may place more value on an item that cannot be changed and is specifically tailored to that person's needs, rather than have the flexibility that you presume that everyone would desire.